Agenda items
Standing items
- Who is here
- Any other suggested topics
- Wins / Thanks / Blockers
- Statistics and functionality update. X new bugs created in last two weeks. Y closed by the initiative.
- The bug I would most like to see fixed
- Update on target items from last meeting
- What should be the initiative focus for the next 2 weeks?
Statistics
0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread to introduce yourself. We’ll keep the meeting open for 24 hours to allow for all timezones.
| quietone | Hi |
| klonos (that Backdrop CMS guy) | Hello :wave::skin-tone-3: ...Greg from Salsa Digital. ...still reading and trying to "orientate". |
| amjad1233 | Hello |
| mstrelan | Michael, Brisbane Australia |
| amey mudras | Hello Amey Mudras here from Salsa Digital |
| DanielVeza | Daniel, AU |
| lendude | Len, Amsterdam |
| kimb0 | Kim, Sydney |
| smustgrave | Stephen, Virginia US |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) | Kristen, California, catching up |
0️⃣.5️⃣ Many cultures have a traditional holiday period towards the end of the year/in the early new year. If you're celebrating soon, what and how - share your plans
| mstrelan | School Christmas concert tonight, my daughter is performing "Santa on a Surfboard". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF3qUf6JRSc |
| darvanen | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCNvZqpa-7Q |
| lendude | Sinterklaas, the dutch version of Santa, share gifts but with rhymes atached to them and putting them in self crafted things themed to whoever is getting the present |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) | "share gifts but with rhymes atached to them" very cool :slightly_smiling_face: |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) | Thanksgiving is this week for me... lots and lots of food :smile: and then Christmas (in Tasmania).. we are not religious but usually celebrate it with a traditional tree and buy gifts for the kids... Santa was a thing in our house for many years and actually came back last Christmas since we didn't have a proper Christmas celebration the previous couple years... my kids are 19 and 17 but "Santa" still got them things :smile: This year, we'll be traveling on Christmas so no tree or proper celebration but we'll still try to enjoy ourselves |
1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread and we’ll open threads for them as appropriate.
| quietone | Format of the 'long term bug' meeting and advertising it. |
| klonos (that Backdrop CMS guy) | Plans for working on outstanding D7 issues after D10 is out the door....D7 is still supported till (at least) Nov 2023, but it is being neglected I feel. If nobody else is keen on working in 7.x core issues, then I would like to take initiative on that. (edited) |
| mstrelan | How to meaningfully contribute to these meetings. I often lurk but have nothing to add. |
| DanielVeza | Raised in 8️⃣, we should consider a deadline for PMNMI issues, if they are over 6 months for example do we just close them all. Currently ~100 issues like that |
| smustgrave | Brought it up and I dropped the ball following up. But an initiative to go through the Needs Review queue |
| larowlan | You should chat with @nod_ he's been talking about the same thing |
| nod_ | @smustgrave yeah let's chat. I have some ideas and some data :) |
2️⃣.1️⃣ Wins - what wins have you had since the last meeting? Share your successes!
| quietone | Recording the triage discussion on these issues, #1114538: Use SI and/or IEC units for byte counts? |
| larowlan | making meaningful headway on my review backlog, and even had some time for triage bingo at the weekend, released about 5 more D10 compatible versions of modules |
| acbramley | rtbc'd an issue that I wrote a one line patch for 10 years ago :laughing: |
| smustgrave | starting the block content reorganization. |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) | not bugsmash, but helped organize and mentor the 3rd Drupal 10 Global Porting Day |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) | Just triaged some issues and closed a couple |
2️⃣.2️⃣ Thanks - a space for callouts to other contributors who’ve helped you
| smustgrave | For you reviewing all those tickets! |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) | I have a hard time finding >1 year old PMNMI issues so whoever is also focused on that, nice work! |
2️⃣.3️⃣ Blockers - what’s getting in the way of your issues / goals
| Kristen Pol (she/her) | The 3rd Drupal 10 Global Porting Day was taking much of my time |
2️⃣.4️⃣ :loudspeaker: If you helped with the triage since the last meeting then don't forget to post a comment to triage issue on d.o.
| larowlan | #3317667: [Meta] Bug Smash Initiative triage fortnight commencing 2022-10-25 |
| mstrelan | I think I read once this is only for issues that are closed. What if you spend time triaging an issue and move it to PMNMI? |
| larowlan | yeah I think we only did this for closed issues |
| lendude | Yeah the idea was that any non-closed status can still get credit if it gets moved back to some form of ‘active’ |
| mstrelan | I'm only asking because there were issues I reviewed 6 months ago and spent time trying to reproduce before setting to pmnmi. These have now been closed due to quietone cleaning them up. So do I link them to the thread now? I possibly could have made them closed (cannot reproduce) 6 months ago instead. At the end of the day I'm not overly bothered, I'll just close and link some other issue :smiley:. |
| lendude | Yeah not a perfect system, adding them once they are closed sounds acceptable but not something everybody would do. The people that rolled fixes back in the day also don’t get credit for that when maybe they should, so dunno :shrug: |
2️⃣.5️⃣ Approve last fortnight's minutes
| larowlan | thanks to @quietone for collating these after I forgot in @Griffyn Heels's absence |
| larowlan | #3317665: Meeting of the Bug Smash Initiative 2022-11-08 |
| darvanen | I think there are some credits missing, unless I've got the criteria wrong? I think at least @mstrelan deserves a credit for engaging with the targets |
3️⃣ Core bug statistics - current state of open bugs
| quietone | Priority (goal): actual Critical (50): 59 Major (1000): 913 Normal (6000): 4720 Minor (300): 343 |
| quietone | Today: 2022-11-22
From: 2022-11-08 to 2022-11-22 All bugs Status Count Approximately 802 yr reduction in total number of years of all open bugs. Only bugs tagged Bug Smash Initiative Status Count Approximately 723 yr reduction in total number of years of all open bugs. |
| larowlan | Approximately 723 yr reduction:blue_heart: |
| lendude | 75 outdated? Sounds like a lot…..should we check if somebody isn’t being overly aggressive on closing these? Or is there some explanation? |
| lendude | Are those all ex-PMNMI issues? |
| quietone | It is highly likely to be me, closing many PMNMI issues lately. My initial work has been with the ones easiest ones. For example, no-one was able to reproduce, no steps to reproduce when they are needed to progress. (edited) |
| lendude | Awesome!! |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) | Should we focus specifically on Critical+Minor for awhile to see if we can close those gaps? |
4️⃣ Lets check back on our targets and set some new ones
| larowlan | #1120020: SQLite database locking errors cause fatal errors |
| larowlan | https://www.drupal.org/node/2894710 |
| larowlan | https://www.drupal.org/node/3179199 |
| larowlan | https://www.drupal.org/node/3118679 |
| larowlan | these ones seem to be a bit stale? should we set new ones? |
| mstrelan | For 1120020 I don't see much point backporting to 9.4 since 9.5/10.0 are around the corner and the issue is 11 years old by now. |
| mstrelan | Although #159 suggests the patch works fine, so maybe this should be RTBC? |
| larowlan | Yep catch just wanted a green run on 9.4 in #152, but looks like it failed? |
| mstrelan | It looks like 9.5 failed too but that still got committed |
| larowlan | ah 9.5 was a random CKeditor fail, checking 9.4 |
| larowlan | yeah looks like that awkward period a few weeks back where there was lots of WebDriver test fails |
| mstrelan | the most recent run on 7.4 passed, https://www.drupal.org/pift-ci-job/2506019 |
| mstrelan | failed on 7.3 though |
| larowlan | there's one green 9,4 one, I reckon you're save to put it to rtbc and point to the green run |
| larowlan | looks like head fails on sqlite and 7.3 https://www.drupal.org/pift-ci-job/2506020 - see branch result |
5️⃣ Help me - Is there anything you could use a :hand:
6️⃣ Let's look back at PMNMI issues that we can close this fortnight
| larowlan | @quietone has been making some great progress here, I'm looking forward to seeing this week's stats |
| larowlan | https://www.drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?text=&assigned=&subm...…]%20Smash%20Initiative&&&order=last_comment_timestamp&sort=asc |
| quietone | There are 286 PMNMI that are tagged bugsmash. At least 4 pages (200) issues have been waiting for > 3months. |
| klonos (that Backdrop CMS guy) | I have started looking at #1457266: Taxonomy autocomplete produces Invalid multibyte sequences and PDO errors |
| DanielVeza | Ah what point do we bite the bullet on these and do a mass close? 6 months? The entire first 2 pages are over 6 months since the last update (edited) |
| larowlan | We want to take a measured approach |
| quietone | Yes, the postponed is helpful but you still need to review. For example, if the issue was created by a subsystem maintainer it is could still be valid. |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) | Here's the new issue #3323257: [Meta] Bug Smash Initiative triage fortnight commencing 2022-11-08 |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) | I updated the Slack bookmark too |
| larowlan | thanks |
7️⃣ What are you learning / planning to learn this fortnight?
| quietone | Whatever I said the last time I was asked this question. I surely haven't gotten to it yet! |
| klonos (that Backdrop CMS guy) | Start looking into symfony-based Drupal codebase and dipping my toes :grimacing: |
| larowlan | ha know the feeling |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) | I'll probably be focused on a lot of marketing this fortnight so I guess learning to not be so perfectionistic in blog posts? :smile: |
8️⃣ Decide on an alternate meeting format for tackling long term bugs aka 'hard problems'https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C014QES6HSQ/p1665523249419359
| quietone | Since we have a history/memory of the statistics being reported every two weeks, we should keep that. |
| quietone | If we do that we should record the minutes. |
| larowlan | yep agree |
| quietone | I'd like to not record the threads that are discussing an issue because that should be record by someone present on the issue itself. |
| darvanen | We could end up with some pretty long minutes that way |
| darvanen | beat me to it |
| quietone | How does that meeting decide on issues? |
| larowlan | yeah that was the next question |
| larowlan | should we start with criticals? |
| darvanen | Perhaps ones that have already come up as targets? |
| larowlan | we used to have something called 'hard problem meetings' at drupalcons when people were in person |
| larowlan | there's some detritus from it in the queue https://www.drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?project_issue_follow...…]B%5D=any_8.&issue_tags_op=%3D&issue_tags=Prague+Hard+Problems |
| larowlan | so maybe we need a new 'Bug Smash Hard Problems' tag ? We could check with @xjm if we could resurrect that term |
| larowlan | so let's say for the first run we go with 'criticals' how do we pick from there? age open? age since updated? how many? |
| darvanen | How about nominations from people who have skin or interest in a critical, fall back on age open? |
| darvanen | Surely just one is enough? |
| quietone | We can be more inclusive by having more than one. Say 1 frontend and 1 backend? |
| darvanen | Good point, fair. (edited) |
| larowlan | ok, so do we open for nominations beforehand |
| larowlan | it would be good to come to the meeting with a list rather than spend N minutes of it deciding one |
| quietone | I was starting to think the same thing. |
| darvanen | I don't think we're going to run into conflict over choices, everyone in here has been pretty chill so far, but if we're nominating do we need to plan for conflict? |
| larowlan | nominate and vote ? |
| darvanen | That's the usual remedy, yeah |
| larowlan | we can open it on the friday before the tuesday, we can automate a reminder like we do for triage, then we can use the little :heavy_plus_sign: emoji to vote, you can't add an emoji more than once so its fairly tamper proof |
| darvanen | (I actually suspect we'd end up using the fallback more often than not) |
| quietone | Yea, the facilitator needs to be ready with fallbacks. |
| larowlan | #3081144: [PP-1] Database primary keys can exceed maximum integer storeable (has actually occurred, in watchdog) as two criticals tied at the waist would make good first candidates |
| darvanen | So, in summary what we currently have is:Keep minutes of non-issue discussions (numbered items?)Need to check with xjm about resurrecting the old "Hard Problem" tag, and if not, make a new oneStart out by tackling Criticals (because they're hard)Aim for one frontend and one backend issue for the meeting if we canThere'll be a mechanism - described above - to nominate and vote for an issue if you want it worked on, and we'll fall back to age-opened (?) if there are no nominations, which means the facilitator (who?) will need to have a couple ready to go. |
| darvanen | Those two issues seem fine, except perhaps they're both fairly backend-focussed? |
| larowlan | yeah sorry, they are, we'd need a frontend one too, but lets wait for voting, I'll setup a reminder |
| larowlan | slack reminders do 'every weekday' or 'every friday' but not 'every fourth friday' so that's going to need some thought |
| darvanen | Is there a plugin we can use? |
| darvanen | Oh. I see most of them are paid. |
| larowlan | I am thinking it might just be a calendar entry in the core calendar? |
| darvanen | Pardon my ignorance... what/where is that? |
| darvanen | the docs for /remind say that "every two weeks" works, have we tried "every four weeks"? |
| larowlan | https://calendar.google.com/calendar/u/0?cid=ZHJ1cGFsY29yZWNhbGVuZGFyQGF... |
| larowlan | yeah every four weeks works, so I'll wait till fri morning and set it |
| catch | Critical triage is great. We can always backfill from majors for whatever reason. |
| catch | Somewhat related to the two issues already chosen is #2885413: Timestamp field items are affected by 2038 bug (Y38K bug) |
9️⃣ Plans for working on outstanding D7 issues after D10 is out the door. via @klonos (that Backdrop CMS guy)
| larowlan | Long story, there is none, the initiative is exclusively focused on D9 and 10 |
| larowlan | If you are interested in that, I'd encourage you to find some like minded souls and try to form a team like we have here |
| klonos (that Backdrop CMS guy) | :+1::skin-tone-3: |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) | @larowlan I am curious if you know the likelihood of D7 bug fixes getting committed these days if such an effort was done... it would be a shame for people to spend effort on this and then the issues just sit there for a year and then are all closed out as "outdated" or whatever once D7 EOL happens (assuming that it ever does happen) |
| larowlan | You'd be best to ask @mcdruid - I have no insight into d7 - but I suspect with less than 12 months to eol it's likely wasted effort |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) | Thanks @larowlan... let's see what @mcdruid says :slightly_smiling_face: |
1️⃣0️⃣ How to meaningfully contribute to these meetings. I often lurk but have nothing to add via @mstrelan
| larowlan | it would depend on the meeting |
| larowlan | today assistance in 8️⃣ and 4️⃣ is welcome |
| quietone | Offer to transcribe the minutes |
| quietone | Or review minutes |
| Kristen Pol (she/her) | I use this meeting as a spur to do some PMNMI triage so, although I may not contribute "much" to this meeting, I like attending for that reason... so perhaps this is a way others can "use the meeting" to help with contribution |
| jibran | Maybe work on a bug @mstrelan and ask for review in 5️⃣ :wink: |